INFORMAL STAFF MINIMUM WAGE

Discussion in 'Employment Law' started by Joantorres, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Joantorres

    Joantorres New Member

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    Anyplace in the web I can find definition of INFORMAL STAFF.
    . A gardener.. household.. security for villa not for a business.
    Is there a minimum wage for informal staff
     
  2. atlantis

    atlantis
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    As long as they are not employed by a badan usaha/company but by a private party, the situation of informal staff is not addressed by the 2003 Manpower Act, so you would find almost no legal resource concerning them. Only "peripheral" laws address them (like in the UU concerning human rights, UUD, UU Penghapusan KDRT...etc)

    There is also no equivalent to the UMP for non formal workers or PRT (Pekerja Rumah Tangga) as they are formally known. There is a long awaited RUU tentang perlindungan PRT which should have been passed for some years now but there are still discussions and disagreement about it. Anyway, those who are concerned (the PRT) don't have the means to lobby and convince the DPR that their situation deserve a fair treatment.

    In this very forum (or the old one) some Expat forum members, some of them living on a comfortable Expat package, have tried to convince us that paying staff Rp600K a month was the act of a Good Samaritan. Personally I think it's just being f***ing greedy. Living on the UMP is already hard enough, so I don't want to imagine on less than that.

    Should you need more information about UMP, we have an interesting (Puji diri allelujah...:)) article on our sister website: https://www.expatindo.org/indonesian-minimum-wage/
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  3. Euc-

    Euc- Active Member Charter Member Cager

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    Although I don't agree with paying just 600k a month, I do believe certain considerations should be made for live-in maid/nanny situations where-in the employer provides accommodation, 3 meals a day, toiletries, pulsa etc.
     
  4. Anglian

    Anglian Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    Sadly we had two maids over the years got no pay at all, we did see if we could get them paid but failed, I have no idea how a poor Kampung girl can get a fair deal at times
     
  5. atlantis

    atlantis
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    Of course it should, as it is for formal worker. UMP is the sum of all wage and allowance provided by an employer. I think it is explained in the article I linked in my above post.
     
  6. Smallworld

    Smallworld Active Member Charter Member Cager

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    There are no guidelines of wages for informal staff. It all depends of the goodwill of the landlord and the agreement of the staff willing to work for such and such amount of money. You also did not mentioned if this is for full / part time, which city Jakarta/other metropolitan areas or some small city/village.

     
  7. atlantis

    atlantis
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    I think that one of the most important criteria to consider is WHERE in Indonesia one lives, rather than if you live in a kota kecil or kota besar. The price of sugar or any embako in Papua, be it in a kampung or in Jayapura or Manokwari can easily be the double of the same commodity anywhere in Jawa Tengah. This is why the UMP in Papua provinces is almost Rp 2,9 jt while it is about half of that in Jawa Tengah. The difference of prices in between kota kecil or kota besar in the same province would be marginal in comparison.
    Thus, the provincial UMP and its more local variants, the UMK, gives in my opinion a much better idea.

    Trying to get a Live Out PRT working for Rp 700K to Rp 900K (Gaji Pembantu yang tidak menginap Rp 700.000 - Rp 900.000/bulan) in Manado is a sure recipe to do the house shore yourself.
     
  8. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    I pay 2jt a month to the guy who lives in at our house, his jobs are to feed & clean up after the animals, to sweep & mop the house floors & to wash the scooter & pop up & down to the shops, to pick me up from the bus when I get back in from Jkt & he loves to cook, so he usually cooks a meal a day. however those jobs take up very little time out of the day so he gets lots of down time, he gets toiletries provided, I will buy him a few new dvds a month a few packs of cigs a week & other things, I actually accounted for his BPJS payments in his wage , but I think he didn't buy into it, so last week when he was sick he wanted 100,rb to go see the doctor.
    He is older & not very energetic, but he is honest & unobtrusive, so I counterbalance the slow, lazier ways with the peace of mind if we are both away from home, knowing things will run smoothly.
    I figure he has a pretty good deal compared to what he would get anywhere else.
    I do realise his money is peanuts in comparison to what he might earn in a different country , so by my husband's standards, I am very soft on the guy.
    I just try to keep a happy medium.
     
  9. atlantis

    atlantis
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    I am just back from a week in Bali and, comparing two articles bought in the same condition (ex pasar to pasar or swalayan to swalayan) I was amazed at how "cheap" Denpasar is compared to Manado, while both are cities of similar importance, when it comes to staple food such as rice, chile, veggies, cooking oil...etc. .
     
  10. Smallworld

    Smallworld Active Member Charter Member Cager

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    I believe big/small city also have their own economical rules like unemployment levels, age it is hard for older people with no qualifications or qualifications not matching job market to find job maybe in the area, big businesses suddenly closing down their business which lead to people being made redundant ect.... then those people will look for "anything" and work "any" money. Small kampung with some housewifes just staying at home.... looking for extra income but unable to find job. Those are your potential employees who will be happy to offload some housing chores.

    I don't know Manado market and local prices ect.... I don't know even which area is the author of my copy&paste "informal guide" living, I don't know if all that information is true either. UMK, UMP are official guides when it comes to formal salaries. Since Informal word was used in the question above for me personally it means more or less the same as "pay virtually anything what makes you both happy". Keep aside all the questions about paying such wages and if it is morally good/bad and employer's peace of mind.
     
  11. atlantis

    atlantis
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    I think we will easily agree on the fact that formal or not formal workers are all human beings, whatever type of chore they do.
    The UMP is more than an official guide when it comes to formal salaries. It's mode of calculation is based on the Kebutuhan Hidup Layak (Minimum/Decent Living Needs) of a single, non married adult individual for a month.

    When it comes to pay my people, I don't care much about if they work formally or informally for me. More about what is their minimum needs as human being.

    Agreeing doesn't mean that one is happy with his salary. Often it is just agreeing because there is no other choice.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing with you. Just a general thought about salaries in Indonesia.
     
  12. Smallworld

    Smallworld Active Member Charter Member Cager

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    Similar here: Except for driving my wife to/from work 30 min each way if there is traffic, he is cleaning floors in the house once a week, wash 2 cars, do some shoppings if he is going for a break (he lives 15 min by motor and eats at home), he is also helping us with simple DIY jobs around our house as well as gardening. About 50% of time he just play on mobile phone in front of the house or wash/fix his motorcycle/taking a nap... I don't mind... everything is done and I am happy with it. We provide him with THT and small gifts from time to time. Also by having a small chit-chat with him I am improving my language + the local market/price knowledge give me the cutting edge technology when bargaining, searching for "hard to find" items.

    I agree. Our driver was approached by few local neighbors who tried to hi-jack him. He refused as he prefer to work for us. He said one offered him 1.5 jt and he will have to drive several children to/from school then after school activities for kids as well as parents. The other one offered what we pay but he will have to work in Jakarta as online taxi driver (all profits for them) on top of that each morning driving them to/from work.
     
  13. brian@bekasi

    brian@bekasi Active Member Cager

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    I really think this question about payment depends on each set of circumstances.

    We only pay our staff 1.5 Jt each per month. We have one young man who does basic cleaning and washes the cars and recently hired a nanny. We used to have a lady who did the washing and a small amount of cooking but needed the nanny so we bought a new washing machine for me to use and my wife now does all cooking..

    Generally our cleaner would work no more than 2 hours a day but is around if someone needs something urgently.

    I addition we give the staff "pocket money" each week and provide for all their needs including food ( same as family), bedrooms (house not staff), medical, dedicated TV area and so on. They live no different to us when it comes to basic needs. They always attend extended family functions as part of an extended family.

    We get our staff from islands near Kupang and they come for 12-18 months then leave. We pay airfares and all associated cost.

    Generally they ask my wife to keep there wages in the safe and usually just take them when they leave or if there is an emergency at home..

    I have worried about wages a lot in the past but know I believe that we cater for them to live decently as a single unmarried person and have provided them an opportunity they not have got given there very poor background.

    Saying that I have heard many stories of people working many long hours for the Jakarta rich with little compensation.
     
  14. Euc-

    Euc- Active Member Charter Member Cager

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    Indeed that is mentioned in the article:

    Following that you'd need to provide a minimum of 2.7jt a month for a maid/nanny/driver/whatever in Jakarta, which I think is unrealistic, especially considering all their needs are provided for and that money could easily still be way more then they would get compared to "back home".

    I believe that brian@bekasi is roughly in the right ballpark.

    From my circle, mostly Indo-Chinese, their average pay is roughly 1.5jt for a "fresh of the boat" helper, paying more the longer they stay with them and the more "experienced" they get. I believe an increase of roughly 10% per year to be the average. Certain positions in certain situations get way more e.g. nanny's in charge of new-borns seem to be getting 4-5jt++, drivers of (extreme) luxury cars I have heard of salaries of up to 10jt, and the driver who brings a friend of mine to his 9-5 job, dropping kids off at school along the way and at the same time also drops/picks his flight-attendant wife from/to the airport at the weirdest times gets about 7jt a month.
     
  15. Anglian

    Anglian Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    We were seeking a non live in maid to work 5days a week, 2 to 5 pm, cost 1.5 million, the maid in the house opposite to us doesn’t live in, I don’t know her actual hours but she is on 3 million a month,
     
  16. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    Our chappie has been sick for a fair while now & the weight has dropped off him recently, so he decided that he wants to go home as he is too sick to continue working.

    So hubby wins the jobs... who wants to tell him?
     
  17. Anglian

    Anglian Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    Well the perspective maid didn’t want the job, perhaps 1.5 mil wasn’t enough, but perhaps it’s our friendly dog, he is only a soft Golden Retriever, but some Indonesians are terrified of him, no idea why
     
  18. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    Imagine how it is at our place with 3 dogs, one being a rottie, 1 a Boxer & the other a fat lil sluggy thing- oops sorry, I mean a frenchie :D
    & then all the chickens...
     
  19. nd_eric_77

    nd_eric_77 Member Charter Member Cager

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    "because...HARAM!!!" nd_eric_77 said, faux-blasphemously...
     
  20. Anglian

    Anglian Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    smoking is haram,
     
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