Cryptocurrencies

Discussion in 'Money matters, Banking and Investments' started by Bad_azz, Aug 24, 2017.

  1. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    I am educating myself in these matters & I find it all very interesting and fun.
    I decided the best way to learn was to buy in & then play around with it.

    Anyone else using Bitcoin/ Alt coins?

    For those who wonder wth I am talking about the cryptocurrencies are a decentralised way of having funds.
    No affiliations with banks or governments. The consumer is responsible for all trading and for storage/security.
    The markets are very mobile & can rise or fall quickly in a day. However the long term trend seems to show they are on the up & most likely the future of finance.
    There are videos with information out there & plenty of websites with info too.

    I like the idea of having a stash of digital currency that can be sent globally in a matter of seconds without having to wait for bank opening times etc. or paying the silly banking fees.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2017
  2. El_Goretto

    El_Goretto
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    I have a fraction of a bitcoin. Was worth $20 a few years ago, now worth $400. The value doubled in the last month or so. Crazy.
     
  3. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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  4. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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  5. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    If a Capital Gain is made on a Bitcoin sale and the investor is a resident of a country where Capital Gains are taxed.... would the tax authorities ever be able to trace?
     
  6. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    I guess it depends on how & where one sold it hypothetically speaking, I would not advise tax dodging or illicit activities. So I would have to advise that one declared the gain & paid tax on it...
    :D
    But- not everyone abides by the tax laws & that is why a lot of institutions - banks/govts are not thrilled by the cryptocurrencies- they don't make gains from them.
     
  7. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    I know of a lady living in Massachusetts who earlier this week invested $2 in a simple piece of paper with numbers...she just cashed her investment and it was $758,700,000. After taking lump-sum cash instead of an annuity and paying tax she nets $336,000,000....and she quit her job!.
    Now beat that for an investment....:peace:
     
  8. steveandpenny

    steveandpenny Active Member Cager

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    Ok i think I understand some about bitcoin but have a question. If you need to pay for something that the other side doesn't use bitcoin can you and how do you get it turned into hard cash. This is with the understanding I'm in manado indonesia and not London or san francisco
     
  9. El_Goretto

    El_Goretto
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    You need to exchange it first. Just like if you have USD in Manado but the shop only accepts IDR.

    Instead of going to a money changer you can find someone online who will meet you in person and give you IDR for your bitcoins.

    To hold bitcoins, you need an electronic "wallet" which is like an account number. So once you've transfered the agreed amount to the trader's wallet using one of the many apps or websites to do so, he will give you the agreed amount of IDR in cash or transfer.

    Of course, you can also do all of this online on one of the many online exchanges straight from your credit card to your bitcoin wallet.

    So the idea is that theoretically, you could give someone USD 100k in the US in exchange for the equivalent in bitcoins. Take a plane to Manado, exchange these bitcoins for their value in IDR in cash bypassing prying eyes and exchange fees along the way. But with the currency being so volatile, you could also lose a chunk of it in the time it takes to fly to Manado.

    Cryptocurrencies have shot up in value like crazy. A bitcoin used to be worth less than $1 now it's worth over $4k. Same with Etherium, Litecoin etc. A lot of people have made a lot of money but many have also lost a lot when online exchanges abruptly closed down and the owner ran away with millions in dollars worth of bitcoins. Or when said exchanges got hacked and the bitcoins stolen. By its very unregulated nature, there are no fail safes, it's still kinda the wild west.

    And of course, it's the currency of choice for those dark web marketplaces selling drugs and weapons.

    Cryptocurrencies are incredibly exciting but one needs to be careful and not hold on too much of them for too long. At least not more than one is willing to lose.

    Those who are raking in a ton of money are those miners and exchanges, typically organisations that don't hold onto the coins for too long.
     
  10. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    You can also send direct from an Indonesian bank account to an exchange.
    (much like ebay etc. - go with the seller's reputation- say they have performed 1000+ transactions with 100% positive feedback - use them rather than someone with 50 transactions & a 80% pos feedback)

    https://localbitcoins.com/

    Obviously it costs money to buy or sell the coin, just like it does to buy or sell $ or IDR. I made my fees back in about an hour or so.
    **That's not to say that everyone will or that I won't lose out tomorrow or next week- but that is part of the fun of it.
    High risk/reward. & its kinda legalised gambling, much like playing the stockmarket .
    If you have 500rb IDR kicking about (or less) & want to give it a whirl it gives you something to do in the long lazy days of expat-dom. I would not advise anyone to "invest" their life savings , but by all means a month's worth of mall-priced coffee money is worth a punt.
    The digital hot wallet - if on the computer & not in hard copy it is a hot wallet- is a little bit addictive to watch because the figure you own is constantly moving, or at least it has been for me.
    You can literally sit & watch your investment grow/shrink. Personally I think the only way is up with these Cryptocurrencies for the foreseeable future because banks have pissed of way too many people, and centralised currencies are subject to dodgy governments.
     
  11. satomoto

    satomoto Member

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    One lucky lady! Her odds was like 1-300 million, almost as good as Satoshi Nakamoto the creator of bitcoin ;)
     
  12. satomoto

    satomoto Member

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    localbitcoins is quite solid, so far I havent encountered any fraud there, though the fees are likely to be higher there. If you prefer using IDR to buy, then Luno Indonesia or Bicoin.co.id seems to be a popular choice in Indonesia.
     
  13. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    Thanks satomoto, I hadn't come across Luno Indonesia- will take a look.

    I used bitcoin.co.id yesterday- they are a bit more faffy than localbitcoins.com in the whole account verification process- I had to send in scans/photos of my documents & a photo of me holding a bit of paper with some verification writing & my signature on it.
    I suppose it is a fair enough way to deter fraudsters- but does seem to take the anonymity out of the thing that is supposed to be anonymous. It just felt more centralised than local did.

    For me it is no problem to try out these things & it is interesting to have the discussion going on in here too, as I said in the OP, I am educating myself, mainly for work reasons- luckily it is fun too.
     
  14. Bad_azz

    Bad_azz Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    There is nothing to stop you from encouraging local traders to accept cryptocurrencies. Especially in tourist areas. It only takes minutes to set up the online stuff & a lot (most) of it can be done by smartphone.
     
  15. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    Has Satoshi been found and come forward to claim his/her lucky proceeds. It took but a few hours for the lady in US to get her cheque....but not before the IRS got their cut...:evil:
     
  16. nyc

    nyc New Member

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    Bitcoin is a great tool for moving money internationally. Expats in Indonesia have the added benefit of using exchanges in two countries and benefitting from very real arbitrage opportunities.
     
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  17. R Cameron

    R Cameron Member Charter Member Cager

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    I've heard of this before, but haven't quite wrapped my mind around it. Could you give an example in a series of steps? How is it done (nearly) instantly so that there is no risk in bitcoin price fluctuation during the transaction? If you're going from a foreign currency to IDR, is the exchange rate comparable to other methods?
     
  18. nyc

    nyc New Member

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    I wrote a small program that compares the price on bitcoin.co.id to Gemini in USD. If the delta pleases me my wife buys on the favorable exchange. There is no worry of BTC price flucuation because good arbitrage opportunities merit immediate action.
    For example, if I see a delta of $150 USD I'm very happy. My pre-funded Bitcoin.co.id account is used to immediately purchase BTC. I pay 10% .id government tax for withdrawal (new as of last year) and move the BTC to the US. This takes 15 minutes. I then place a sell order on a US exchange that is fulfilled immediately.
    Free money. Thank Allah for multiculturalism.
     
  19. nyc

    nyc New Member

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    Thr
    The cavaet is that my fiat is then bound to the destination exchange. For me that's no problem but some people care a lot.
     
  20. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    I think R Cameron, and myself, would appreciate how your method of exchange using the bitcoin method compares to say a bank or money exchange. Could you please make it easier for us to understand. i.e. TransferWise right now will Xchange GBP1,000 to IDR 17,061,129 and will be received on Tuesday.
     

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