Air Asia flight to Bali takes wrong turn.

Discussion in 'In the News' started by Vanhelsing, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Vanhelsing

    Vanhelsing Well-Known Member Cager

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    I'm not sure how much longer these issues involving Air Asia will continue before passengers start opting for more expensive flights with carriers not involved in seemingly monthly safety related issues. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is looking into an unprecedented seven safety related incidents which have occurred over the past twenty months here in Australia ranging from engine fires to loss of cabin pressure on the "world's best low-cost airline".

    The most recent event required a flight crew to be told by air traffic control they were going the wrong way after take-off from Perth on a flight to Bali which doesn't imbue one with a great deal of confidence in the effectiveness of Air Asia's pilot training program. However, add this to recent multiple events, and even an Air Asia fanboy like me is getting a little nervous.

    https://thewest.com.au/travel/air-a...rth-turns-left-instead-of-right-ng-b88678220z
     
  2. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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  3. William King

    William King Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    he said more expensive, not less.

     
  4. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    Lion Air is a group which includes Batik Air and Wings Air...just as Air Asia is a group comprising Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia and other airlines.
    The price of tickets therefore vary between all and it cannot be said one is more or less expensive without defining each.
    I used Lion Air as a generic to continue the OP's conversation about recent news on airlines in the region and wasn't attempting to be specific.
     
  5. brian@bekasi

    brian@bekasi Active Member Cager

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    Will not and have not used Air Asia. Even if I wanted to, my wife would refuse as she works on the one strike and you're out principle. The crash and deaths threes years ago was that one strike.

    I really don't know how Air Asia ever got accreditation to fly in Australian airspace.
     
  6. Balifrog

    Balifrog Member

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    Same, considering their abnormal of "incidents" no way I fly with them.
    We all know the pyramid of incidents / accidents / disaster..
     
  7. Joko

    Joko Active Member Charter Member Cager

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    I love AirAsia! I use them all the time... In fact, 4 days from now, Yangon to Bangkok..
     
  8. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    v
    Which airline does your wife accredit?
    The reason I ask is because, in my experience, every airline suffers from some one strike accident...it is the very nature of technology. The realistic principle is we learn from mistakes and therefore your wife may have an issue with that principle rather asserting blame....and thus ....having an unjustified attitude!
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  9. steveandpenny

    steveandpenny Active Member Cager

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    Frist off there are airlines that have never had a fatal accident ! Singapore airlines being one. So no strike one seeing brains wife gave Asia airline 1 strike for the accident that involed deaths.
     
  10. dafluff

    dafluff
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    Singapore does have a fatal accident on record:

    On 31 October 2000, Singapore Airlines 006 crashed into construction equipment on the runway, killing 83 and injuring 71 of the 179 occupants aboard. The Boeing 747-400 turned into, and tried to take off from, a closed runway that was under construction at the time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_Airlines_Flight_006
     
  11. Euc-

    Euc- Active Member Charter Member Cager

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    And since Lion/Batik always get pulled together, let’s not forget SilkAir:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185

    I wonder what Brian’s wife does fly, or perhaps she doesn’t, as there are very few airlines with a perfect safety record, none of them flying domestically in Indonesia.
     
  12. brian@bekasi

    brian@bekasi Active Member Cager

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    We fly Garuda in Indonesia and Qantas on flights to Australia. Around Asia it has been Singapore Airlines, Cathay Pacific or Garuda. To Europe in May it was Thai and probably Emirates next May because you can split the flight time with a stop over in Dubai.

    It is not a matter of asserting blame. It is a matter of risk management although we are aware any aircraft can have technical issues.
     
  13. vocalneal

    vocalneal Active Member Cager

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    Come and buy me a beer?
     
  14. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    You make a very good point.
    If someone says categorically they will never fly with this or that airline because of its accidents really need to do research.

    Re: Singapore Airlines is not immune to accidents/incidents (see dafluff and euc's posts) and just categorising by fatalities is a moot point. There's an expression..."There, by the grace..." I'll leave others to finish the cliché.
    Re: http://www.aviationinspector.com/20...sq422-denies-flight-tried-land-wrong-airport/

    It was not long ago that only rich people could afford to fly and still airlines had accidents. Even private jets have had fatal accidents....remember the famous golfer Payne Stewart and his demise...http://www.airsafe.com/stewart.htm

    Today, just about everyone can afford to fly and the increase in volume of aircraft in the sky at any one time is remarkable...and yet the accidents/incidents are relatively low by any other comparable mode of transport.

    IMO Air Traffic Control in Indonesia is just as culpable for aircraft accidents/incidents than are the actual airlines and crew but they don't capture the same media attention. When did anyone read about an Indonesian ATC controller smoking a joint?

    edit: just seen Brian's post and noted he flies with Garuda so wanted to remind of this...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda_Indonesia_Flight_200
    I'm very familiar as my wife's cousin was in first class and was one of the 20 who didn't survive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  15. dafluff

    dafluff
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    Despite the dismal record, Indonesian aviation is far and ahead safer than any other local form of transport.

    That said I don't travel on Air Asia (any country) because one time they cancelled a route (not a flight, a whole route) that I had my whole family booked on about 1 week before we were supposed to go. This to me shows a serious lack of integrity. If you want to cancel a route you should stop selling tickets on it, and/or at least fly all those people who already bought tickets then cancel the route.

    At first they wouldn't even refund me, they insisted that I can use their alternative route, which had a something like a 4 hour lay-over instead the non-stop option that I booked. Not an option with small children.
     
  16. Vanhelsing

    Vanhelsing Well-Known Member Cager

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    Where once I would have to pay between Aud $700 - $1000 to fly return to Indonesia I now pay between $200-$300 because of AirAsia's entry into the Australian market. It was only through their competition that airfares were driven down in the region and made it affordable for people like me to fly regularly to Indo. That said, my loyalty is not unconditional and is being tested somewhat with the amount of safety issues they're having.

    I have four flights with them over the following four months.
     
  17. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    Australia has always had a monopolistic attitude to foreign airlines by protecting its own....until Ansett collapsed.... which allowed Virgin Blue to enter the Oz airline market.
    In the late 70's the airline I worked for had a free-drinks policy but, because Qantas didn't, when we flew to Australia (Sydney, Perth) we were compelled to charge passengers for drinks. We would assure our passengers that all money collected would go to an Australian charity. This became a regular feature that some said they flew with us just because of that principle....karma?

    Australian Trade Unions are very active in all aspects of airline enterprise. In 2011 the CEO of Qantas said he couldn't keep the airline viable without some Gov't subsidy because of Union demands. His only other recourse was to move Qantas to Singapore to avoid stringent Australian rules. I believe the Unions acquiesced on some of their demands....
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Qantas_industrial_disputes
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  18. Anglian

    Anglian Well-Known Member Charter Member Cager

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    I did a survey of two Air Asia aircraft recently at CGK, they were in very good condition and well maintained plus all defects were rectified in good time, better than some American Airlines, I used to get fed up with what we call, “Oh by the way, such and such isn’t working” just as the crew were leaving the aircraft, the crew didn’t want to snag the aircraft themselves and cause a delay, instead of writing the defect into the Tech Log it was written on a napkin, I was told by the U.K. CAA that there were over 25 ways to sign an aircraft off as being serviceable without ever doing any thing, but it comes down to the captain if he feels he can take the aircraft, so that can put pressure on the captain,
    The worst airline I know in Indonesia was Batavia, why aircraft never fell out of the sky always amazes me, as far as I know they never lost an aircraft, between major inspections little or no work was done, repetive defects raised by the crew were penned of in the most silly ways, an ICAO inspector, tried to ground them, but was overruled by certain people, he went back to the US a totally disalusioned man, so pay your money and take a chance
     
  19. vocalneal

    vocalneal Active Member Cager

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    I blame it on smart phones and people navigating from instructions given and view on very small screens where the bigger picture is not shown. The pilots should now from the big picture that Bali is right from Perth if taking off going west but as the winds and take-off direction changes well...
     
  20. Davita

    Davita Well-Known Member Charter Member

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    I think Perth ATC realized the pilot was flying the wrong way when he forgot to switch on his turn-right signal and the other pilot couldn't open the window fast enough to give the expected emergency hand-signals.....J/K...:plane:

    All aircraft are given clearance to fly a route from a departure airport to an arrival airport. These routes are authorised by the country whose Flight Information Region (FIR) the aircraft is flying and is part of the pre-flight briefing of the crew in the Flight Ops office prior to getting to the aircraft. This is further clarified by Air Traffic Control (ATC) and repeated back by the crew when sitting in the flight deck. Any deviation from that route has to be authorised by the ATC who has control within the region.
    The only time a pilot will normally deviate unilaterally is to prevent an accident.

    We will need to wait for the result of the investigation as to why this Air Asia flight deviated before knowing what went wrong.
     
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